Gt Review @ Goauto

[Charliewool]

I think we should be looking at the long term picture , if considering keeping the vehicle for 3 yrs + This FPV range is the very 1st to wear the badge! Gt's & Pursuits are numbered & given their own identity with this. In 3 or 4 years I believe the resale value will be drastically more than an XR?.. You imagine in 10 years time, having a BA GT number "9"( or any early No.) for sale?...With low K's & good cond the car could fetch anything?...Damn sure it won't be the "lemon" the 50th annivers GT was!.... We are seriously talking a Collectors car here!..

[HSE2]

I agree about resale to a point. I separate the turbo from the rest of the range.

The turbo is the only car to really escape the weight issue, and has established itself as the performance bang for buck king. I don't think it could be beaten in the resale even with the GT badge.

I think, and I guess we will know more tomorrow, that the Xr8 and maybe the Gt range in series one guise will always carry the weight stigma.

You can see what is coming with Series 2 a mile off, and if it does, the models most hurt resale wise will be the heaviest where perhaps the performance mightn't be to market expectations.

CDAA. Yeah of the net write ups doing the rounds I guess I am closest to your thoughts although you did find some faults with the Holden’s I didn't experience. That doesn't surprise me in as much I really think it is a lottery as to what you end up with quality wise. I tested the auto SS, and I know for a fact that that box is mentally challenged, but the example I had I couldn't get it to perform it logic melt down. Although I know it hasn't been fixed I can only comment on what I found on the day, and as a package it was mighty impressive.

And true I guess the age might be a factor. Common sense tells me to go out and buy the Turbo. The GT write up sounds like it address every issue I had with the XR range. I had a client in with me today. I took off from the lights and short shifted straight to 3rd at 20ks with no more than 1200 rpm. He couldn't believe it. To me it is second nature. Perhaps this old dog needs to learn some new tricks.

Right now I am thinking do nothing. FPV aren't quite there. I am immensely happy with 14.23 if it is something I can do day in day out with one on board. That for me is a big thumbs up. At the same time the little voice is saying the GTHO can't be far away. I want to be in the best position to get that car. My friends have GTS and I fear we won't be able to get away from the” your 290 will only match the 260 HSV KWs”. Call me small-minded but time has got to me. I want to put them away. I want to do it day in day out and straight from the factory floor. If I want to achieve that I have to go HO.

I have time, I can wait. I really hope there is a clue at the show. I know the GTHO and the FPV turbo made the paper again today so who knows

[CDAA]

  HSE2 said:

I agree about resale to a point.  I separate the turbo Right now I am thinking do nothing.  FPV aren't quite there.  I am immensely happy with 14.23 if it is something I can do day in day out with one on board.  That for me is a big thumbs up.  At the same time the little voice is saying the GTHO can't be far away.  I want to be in the best position to get that car.  My friends have GTS and I fear we won't be able to get away from the” your 290 will only match the 260 HSV KWs”.  Call me small-minded but time has got to me.  I want to put them away.  I want to do it day in day out and straight from the factory floor.  If I want to achieve that I have to go HO.

I have time, I can wait.  I really hope there is a clue at the show.  I know the GTHO and the FPV turbo made the paper again today so who knows

Same, same for me. Call me silly, however I'm a traffic light executive not focused on country high speed touring, rather taking out the other ‘suit’ next to me in their HSV Clubbie or GTS. Ok, it may only be 0-60, however it reactive, needs tactical response and quick decision, plus a bit of fun, which makes travelling between client meeting interesting.

Seriously, I am also thinking about waiting a little longer as I'm finding it almost impossible to make a decision. The GT sounds more up my alley than any other BA to date, but you can't beat the Turbo for value and my wife agrees naturally (it’s just as fast, it’s still a Falcon and costs less so what's ya problem..she says). ....sad thing is, I know logically she's right......again :nugget:

I am now looking to test-drive a Clubbie and a GT when I can get a hold of one.

Ian, as far as the Expensive Daewoo goes, I found the auto SV8 to be a bullet initially until of course the auto warmed up and developed a personal complex. The SS in manual form however to be frank was a great disappointed from a performance standpoint.

I have not experienced either the BA turbo or XR8 in auto yet. Have you yet and what were your thoughts in comparison to the Holden?

[HSE2]

The country-driving element is more important to me, one day probably end up killing me but that is what I enjoy.

The traffic light element is important to. But more in the way you pull up along side someone and you instantly know, just the look between two people. You know he knows, and he know he knows you know.

I want the car to do the talking so to speak and right now perhaps the FPV does speak loud enough to get that message across. But then again it isn't my primary objective, just a desire to shut my mates up. It s been 4 long years and I swore the next Ford I would accomplish my goal.

You know when I started work there were no performance fords in the car park now there are 5 of us. Only one R8 to go! He is young and stupid (3 years younger than me) and parks his car where everyone has to walk past it. If it means I have to get up at 1 in the morning, before I am finished I will take the parking spot and stick it right up his clacker. He is going to have to walk past my car and he is going to know, if you catch my drift.

Right now its like you can have a little of everything from each car. The turbo probably gives the most and I relate to what your wife is saying and I have no one to tell me. It’s just this little voice eating away. The decision is too hard so maybe that means the time isn't right. I think you know when something is right for you instantly with out much thought, instinct if you like.

For me, and this is going to sound naff.

It would come down to the standard turbo or the GT-P. Money wise they are worlds apart but again each offers excellent value I believe I can justify. The GTP has to be the value buy of the eight cylinder cars, well I think it is. I get my features and options that appeal to me, my idea of what a GT should be.

What can you say about the turbo that hasn't been said!

The comparisons

I haven't driven the Xr range in auto, I have the XT so I have no reason to doubt that the Xr range would be any different. Strangely enough the FPV auto could redefine this segment completely.

I wouldn't mention the Ford auto and the Expensive Daewoo auto in the same sentence (this time excepted)

Can you remember one guy on LS1 saying he felt disappointed with the way the LS1 felt in normal conditions, something like not being special. That is the way all LS1 have felt to me. Like you have to work to find the excitement, where as my car just deliver enjoyment, noise and so straight from the time the key was tuned. My experience with the VY was the first time I have sat in an LS1 car and felt I had something special under me. It was an auto, so in many ways I am not comparing apples with apples, but I like the agility this car had in the front end compared to the dull experience the XR8 gave.

Last time I drove the 6 speed Expensive Daewoo I kept getting the wrong gear But I know what you mean, the manual really shows up the deficiency in the torque band and that isn't am enjoyable experience. But of the two transmissions I have always reckoned the auto was the worst. There is nothing more infuriating then fuzzy logic that turns out to be just that.

[HSE2]

"The GT s secret is the way it goes, sounds, steers, stops,rides and handles. A class act in every sense, the Gt plays its part for real. And raises the bar once again. It's in the genes, y'see"

end quote from wheels

what more can you say!

[HSE2]

The wheels article sheds more light on the performance issue. Like I expected they did try rather hard to improve what they call a disappointing mid 14 time. Read the article and you will see where I am coming from.

Over two days and in different climates they got the time down to 14.23. They say no better than 14.5 in temperatures of mid to high 30s while the next a 10 degree drop produced the 14.2.

[BrentS]

I've just read the "Wheels" article about the XR8 & GT too, and in real world terms, it looks like there is virtually nothing to separate the SS Late model camira and the XR8, or the Clubsport and the GT for that matter. It would have been nice if the XR8 easily hosed the SS, and if the GT did the same to the Clubsport, but not to be.

May be clutching at straws here, but I'm tipping the XR8 and GT engines would be pretty tight when new, with significant frictional losses for the first few thousand kays. This may be in contrast to the loose piston rings in the Gen IIIs which seem to be the source of all the problems regarding oil bypass and piston slap. Where the Gen III may be fully bedded-in at 1,500kms, the Falcon may need a good 5,000+kms to show their best. This may be worth a couple of tenths over the standing quarter.....then again, I suppose that's sheer speculation.

Would be interesting to do a back-to-back between the 4 cars after 10,000kms...........

[HSE2]

I think it is pretty good speculation myself. The thing that struck me with my test drive of the XR8 was it seemed to lack the responsiveness of the turbo or my car, especially when moving away, from say 70-90 kph. It is interesting that wheels in gear acceleration of all the Ford V8s is no where near as good as say the turbo and in fact I don’t think much better than any of the AU XR8s or T series and this just can’t be right. I never expected, and don’t accept the actually result is as much as they say.

I am tending to think along the same lines

[CDAA]

  BrentS said:

I've just read the "Wheels" article about the XR8 & GT too, and in real world terms, it looks like there is virtually nothing to separate the SS Late model camira and the XR8, or the Clubsport and the GT for that matter. It would have been nice if the XR8 easily hosed the SS, and if the GT did the same to the Clubsport, but not to be.

May be clutching at straws here, but I'm tipping the XR8 and GT engines would be pretty tight when new, with significant frictional losses for the first few thousand kays. This may be in contrast to the loose piston rings in the Gen IIIs which seem to be the source of all the problems regarding oil bypass and piston slap. Where the Gen III may be fully bedded-in at 1,500kms, the Falcon may need a good 5,000+kms to show their best. This may be worth a couple of tenths over the standing quarter.....then again, I suppose that's sheer speculation.

Would be interesting to do a back-to-back between the 4 cars after 10,000kms...........

I don’t think your clutching at straws at all. I totally agree. When I drove the SS and SV8, both dealers indicated that the power these cars delivered from new, was the same as the power you should expect after 10,000 –30,000kms, unlike the Fords. The only thing I should expect would be the gearbox to loosen up apparently. In the case of the auto SV8, I hope not!! With the manual SS, the box was just nice the way it was IMO.

In contrast to the Ford the engineers had advised me that the engine will be at its best after 15,000 –20,000kms!! The ‘Wheels’ articles I found to be relevant and confirmed my thoughts on the XR8 as the clear better choice over the SS. “It’s in a different class” I think they quoted. Both cars maybe as fast over the 400m, but I would put money on the fact that the XR8 will get better with time as the SS not so. I also think that the XR8 would be the faster ‘daily driver’ than the SS in the environment I would use it in.

Putting straight-line performance aside, the ‘Wheels’ article also confirmed much of my test-driving experience issue with the SS and the clear difference to the XR8. To be honest the XR8 is gaining more and more credibility with me and it will be interesting to compare it to the Clubsport that I will be test-driving next week. I’m actually expecting the Clubbie to be a more suitable match for the XR8 and I’m not just referring to power.

As far as the GT is concerned, everything I just mentioned about the XR8 vs SS would be relevant to the Clubsport vs GT. I will have to wait and see to confirm this of course….

Cheers,

Colville

[HSE2]

After what I have said about the SS and the XR8, I am a little surprised by the article but certainly not shocked. Higher speeds should show up the deficiencies in the Expensive Daewoo geometry, but normal people aren’t going to go that far.

On one hand I believe the rolling times support my suggestion the XR8 didn't feel as responsive as the turbo or the SS. They affirmed my position on refinement over the SS, and that has played a huge role in the overall outcome, but glossed over the front-end response in the twisty stuff like in switchbacks, something that other articles have noted.

"The Xr8s steering is firmer than a regular falcons, but it feels a little light and lacking in road feel after sampling the Holden’s helm"

- A further point that influences my comments and something I prioritised in my enjoyment of driving and in the comments I have made. Never thought I would see the day where the Expensive Daewoo was a noted winner in this area. You really only have two inputs of connection with the car, those being the steering wheel and the seat. This is what tells you what is going on.

This would be the worst SS article in Vy form by a substantial margin. They even go as far to suggest the clubbie looks better then the SS. Hmmmmmm.

I think if I were die-hard Expensive Daewoo guy I would be a little questionable over some of the comments. If you read back through other VY SS articles we see that dreaded consistency issue. Different drivers over different road types will give you this situation. That’s where you have to draw a line down the centre and say that’s where the truth lies.

In some ways it was a much narrower conclusion than one might expect from wheels. But this is the point of reviews.

I have said before that the road surface makes a huge difference in your interpretation of what is going on underneath you, and it is rare that you can treat a car like what wheels have done to get the separation of the SS over the clubbie. They aren’t going to take it round the block and back to the dealership, they are going to punish the car beyond the limits that 90% plus owners will ever take it.

In normal circumstances you just wouldn't find that distinction, which is why many don't feel the HSV'S of this world are worth the extra. That’s the difference and that is why drive impression and reports of the mags are so import. It is all well and good to say drive it for yourself and make up your own mind but these reviews provide a balance you will find for yourself if confronted with the same conditions.

I think the SS is better than they have said in the big picture, but they have enforced the view I have had, that the Ford turbo is the best all round performance package on the market today.

The only winner here is ford.