A question for the constabulary

[geea]

Some one I know (we'll call him John) got pulled over this morning for speeding. The Policeman was a superintendant and was not in a police car. He pulled "John" over by flashing his head lights and showing a white plastic police sign. Now the car had a rego starting with R-- ---, and was a drty VY commadore. This means it is a couple of years old and probably his personal car. When asked how fast "John" thought he was going "John" replyed about 85kmph (80zone) the policeman said it was actually 93kmph. "John" thought that was ok as that would mean a 1 point penalty with a small fine (93kmph less 3kmph = 90kmph 10kmph over) When "John" was given the ticket it said detected speed 93kmph alleged speed 93kmph. When questioned the police officer stated that it was from the ditgital speed readout of his car, when asked about the margin of error he said there was none.

"John" wasn't very happy. At this stage "John" intends to contest this fine for 2 reasons.

1 he thinks its a little unfair, 1 point is fine but 3 is a bit rude.

2 Would a superintendant really go to court to uphold a speeding ticket.

Any feedback or advice for "John" would be great.

Geea.

[Dr Z]

Geea, there is a wealth of information about what to do HERE.

In general, this site is great for learning about real-life stories regarding mitigating your penalties for speeding-related offences so share it around...but don't tell the constabulary about this site..

Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

[Guest Big Mick]

I think the 3kph tolerance only applies to speed cameras.

Getting pulled over is different, you get what they say, however most cops usually apply at bit of descretion depending on your attitude and how you were driving the car.

I would have asked to see the digital speed readout.

Mick

[ZAP]

Unless he has a police car with a calibrated speedo, the fine will NOT stand up in court.

I got booked by a toyota paddy wagon for 95 in a 60 zone. I was not doing that speed and told them so.

I took it to court and won.

I also would not have pulled over if someone was flashing their lights as there are not in a marked car and thus could be trying to steal your car. If in doubt dial 000 and tell them there is someone who you think may be a cop trying to pull you over.

I would fill out the back of the ticket you got and elect to go to court.

[JB]

John, er sorry Geea my understading is even if the reading is off the speedo there still has to be a 2% margin of error, as most cars (even new) are not accurate.

If he said he got it off his digital car speedo I would suggest it was an unmarked with a police pack.

Not to be definant but I would contest in that situation, maybe a couple of the police guys on here can tell you whether he has missed a couple of vital things or not. I'm sure Plonky and velvet glove will provide their usual constructive opinion/advice.

[BA_Turbs]

"John",

Superintendants in Victoria will generally have their own "company car". This IS a police car and will have the calibrated speedo, so no out there. They generally will not have blue/red lights or a siren though. I have seen the stupid little white sign you are talking about, and if you had just driven off on him claiming that you didn't hink it was the police, he would have had a hard time proving otherwise.

As far as contesting the ticket, go for it. Superintendants generally don't go out kitted with the "tools" for the job, and if he is pulling over cars without his gear... A "brave" (read as: stupid) man indeed. I am not trying to discorouge you from contesting it, but a couple of problems I can see you will encounter:

1. He is a superintendant. He has been a policeman longer than I have been alive. Police can offer expert testimony on vehicle speeds. Having been a police so long, a magistrate will give a lot of wieght to his evidence. (But you and I know he probably hasn't pulled a car over for ten years).

2. The digital speedos in the cars ARE calibrated to be exact. Its the radar and laser that offer a 2km/h "buffer". There are defintatly ways around this though.

When he writes out a penalty notice, there are three copies. You get the red one. On the other two there will be his notes of the intercept. You can get access to these if you contest the ticket. He will have written something similar to TUPMED in his notes. This is important. "Took Up Position and Maintained Even Distance". This is how he "established" your speed. How long was he behind you for? I don't write speeding tickets, but I THINK he should be there for at least 100 metres.

Also, for him to say that you were doing EXACTLY 93km/h, with no variation, is a bold statement. The speedo is 100% acurate, but is he? How can he know you were doing that precise speed. He should have written you down a couple of kilometres anyway, just to allow for varience in the distance between your cars as he was making observations of your speed.

As for the internet sites that tell you how to get out of speeding fines, I am yet to read one that has contained anything other than rehashed tripe. Full of pi$$ and wind and a vessel for traffic lawyers to generate business. If you PM me with the exact details of road, between which streets, time of day, traffic conditions etc I will give you whatever advice I can. Good luck with it!

BA Turbs

PS - Speed Kills

[JB]

  BA_Turbs said:

"John",

Superintendants in Victoria will generally have their own "company car". This IS a police car and will have the calibrated speedo, so no out there. They generally will not have blue/red lights or a siren though. I have seen the stupid little white sign you are talking about, and if you had just driven off on him claiming that you didn't hink it was the police, he would have had a hard time proving otherwise.

As far as contesting the ticket, go for it. Superintendants generally don't go out kitted with the "tools" for the job, and if he is pulling over cars without his gear... A "brave" (read as: stupid) man indeed. I am not trying to discorouge you from contesting it, but a couple of problems I can see you will encounter:

1. He is a superintendant. He has been a policeman longer than I have been alive. Police can offer expert testimony on vehicle speeds. Having been a police so long, a magistrate will give a lot of wieght to his evidence. (But you and I know he probably hasn't pulled a car over for ten years).

2. The digital speedos in the cars ARE calibrated to be exact. Its the radar and laser that offer a 2km/h "buffer". There are defintatly ways around this though.

When he writes out a penalty notice, there are three copies. You get the red one. On the other two there will be his notes of the intercept. You can get access to these if you contest the ticket. He will have written something similar to TUPMED in his notes. This is important. "Took Up Position and Maintained Even Distance". This is how he "established" your speed. How long was he behind you for? I don't write speeding tickets, but I THINK he should be there for at least 100 metres.

Also, for him to say that you were doing EXACTLY 93km/h, with no variation, is a bold statement. The speedo is 100% acurate, but is he? How can he know you were doing that precise speed. He should have written you down a couple of kilometres anyway, just to allow for varience in the distance between your cars as he was making observations of your speed.

As for the internet sites that tell you how to get out of speeding fines, I am yet to read one that has contained anything other than rehashed tripe. Full of pi$$ and wind and a vessel for traffic lawyers to generate business. If you PM me with the exact details of road, between which streets, time of day, traffic conditions etc I will give you whatever advice I can. Good luck with it!

BA Turbs

PS - Speed Kills

[curious]

In QLD I dont think a superint. would know what a ticket book is. The only time where hear from the bosses in their work cars is when someone has done something damn stupid in front of him. As with BA's statement regarding the car, it s true here as well. A Police vehicle is a Police vehicle regardless and is moved off the depot floor fully claibrated and certified saying so.

It sounds like he is a Traffic Superintendant and if that is the case than his evidence will be precise and convincing due to his level of experience.

One thing you have to remember is that all he has to prove is you exceeded the speed limit as that's the element of the charge. You will not find the alleged speed in the charge, its only a part of the evidence. So basically you have admitted to the officer you did 85km/h whch is all he needs to win.

I wonder though if there is more to this story??????????

[Dr Z]

  BA_Turbs said:

As for the internet sites that tell you how to get out of speeding fines, I am yet to read one that has contained anything other than rehashed tripe. Full of pi$$ and wind and a vessel for traffic lawyers to generate business. If you PM me with the exact details of road, between which streets, time of day, traffic conditions etc I will give you whatever advice I can. Good luck with it!

BA Turbs

PS - Speed Kills

Eminently sensible advice BA_Turbs, though the internet site I listed has "saved" many people I personally know on many occasions. Given that it was recommended to me by both current and ex-police friends and colleagues, and has helped out many people I know, it surely has to have something going for it.

Perhaps my friends and colleagues are generally good at avoiding speeding fines and/or mitigating penalties, but I do not recommend anything to anyone lightly, even when using appropriate smileys to indicate something could be taken "with a grain of salt". I agree with you that just "re-hashing" may not get you anywhere, which is why I recommended the site:

  Quote

for learning about real-life stories regarding mitigating your penalties for speeding-related offences.

As a learning site, it does have some gems and offers better than ZERO preparation. I have seen far too many people with little knowledge of their options just "take it on the chin". I am simply advocating that, in general, more rather than less information can often lead people to consider their choices with greater levels of awareness.

Safe and happy driving...Dr Z.

[geea]

  curious said:

In QLD I dont think a superint. would know what a ticket book is. The only time where hear from the bosses in their work cars is when someone has done something damn stupid in front of him. As with BA's statement regarding the car, it s true here as well. A Police vehicle is a Police vehicle regardless and is moved off the depot floor fully claibrated and certified saying so.

It sounds like he is a Traffic Superintendant and if that is the case than his evidence will be precise and convincing due to his level of experience.

One thing you have to remember is that all he has to prove is you exceeded the speed limit as that's the element of the charge. You will not find the alleged speed in the charge, its only a part of the evidence. So basically you have admitted to the officer you did 85km/h whch is all he needs to win.

I wonder though if there is more to this story??????????

Thanks for the advice everyone.

I believe that he is the superintendant of the frankston district.

There was nothing else in it I was taking my daughter to school and there was nothing untoward happening. The road was lightly populated. I usually accelerate away from traffic and try to sit between groups of traffic at just above the posted speed. I will usually sit at 85 in an 80 zone. When getting clear of the traffic the car will be doing alittle more for short periods.

I havent had a ticket in over 3 years.

Geea.