P-plate drivers driving powerful cars.

[Guest anycolouraslongas]

Very sound thinking - guys

on Ps until you pass an advanced driving course, experience graded licenses etc, etc, now just add all those god damn trucks barred to the left hand lane and absolutely no women in 4wds and the world would be a much better place - excuse me while I duck.

[Lumpen]

The focus should be more on P plate curfews and limiting the P plater to carrying only immediate family around in the car.

I agree with most of what you say Plonky but there are these two issues that (like Communisim) are great in theory but dodgy at best in pratice.

<Begin rant against NSW L and P Plate licensing system>

I'm in NSW and I have been unforunate to catch the whole Red P/Green P dibacle of Provisional Licensing. Not unfortunate in the fact I won't get an open license for another two years and about 80,000Km of driving but because I caught the series of ridiculous tests that are in place for nothing more than monetry gain on behalf of the government.

For example : You are going for your L's and want a copy of the road rules? 15 Dollars please (for the ROAD RULES! Wonder why people don't know them). Once you pass the test you NEED a log book that you can show 50 hours of driving time at a cost of 20 Dollars PLUS GST...this goes on and on for about another $250 until at about the age of 21 you finally get a full license!

I have no qualms about paying the costs BUT I can't stand the that NONE of this money goes into junior driving instruction, that $250 would buy a good Advanced Driver Course <at the government expense> at the end of the Green P terms, but NO, Kings College needs another Turf Resurfacing on the Upper North East Oval....

And the fact that I will probably drive (in my years of P Plating) as much kilometres as many 'City' people will drive in a decade, but I will still be classed by the discriminatory Insurance Companies as a liabilty.....

<End Rant on P Plates>

<Back to topic>

P Plate Curfews: These are a very good idea, many more Hoppy, Furry Dangers at night but for people who live outside of Urban Areas with a lack of late night public transport they're just not feasible.

If a few mates and I wish to go out and I (like usual) am the Designated Driver am I meant to head home at 10:30 and let them walk 5-10Kms DRUNK on main roads (taxis aren't running by time a session is generally finished) Let alone if I worked a late night job such as a convenience store.

P Plate Passenger Limitations:These are even less feasible, how many people catch a lift to school, work, parties etc with their mates? This would lead to, on certain nights, more cars on the road, often heading to the same point. Once again in rural areas, often you may need to give a friend a lift into town, is it right for them to miss work because they can't start on time?

<Breathes again>

I think alot of this comes back to better driver education throughout school. My uncle went to school in the states in the 1960's and one of the courses he took was 'Car Maintanence' or something similar. This was a driving course that lead up to the students getting their learners permit, it involved theory (road rules, car maintainene etc) and practical time (often to drive down the donut shop apparently :banghead: ) but once they completed it they had alot more practical knowledge of roads rules and car control and they even got a discount on their insurance!

When I went to High School all we were told about anything to do with cars was : Don't leave the school grounds in a friends car when we can see you, as then we're liable!

It's about time that the government pulls its finger out of its 'Stamp Duty ars*h*le' and injects a little bit into trying to educate people about how to control a missile on wheels. If time in schools can be set aside for Religious Education and funds can be allocated for subsidising School Captains to visit the guvna' (true, they even subsidise your lunches if you provide receipts ) surely they can work out a statewide Driver Education Set-Up.

[harasn]

Is it possible to teach someone who knows everything anything? This is one of the big problesm I see! Young drivers who think they know it all! I'm not that old Almost 30 :-0, but alot of the time you can't tell these youg people anything! I have done alot of driver training with my job and also outside my job and alot of the time the young guys get into it without listening and then wonder why it all turns to crap on the road! I love showing them up through experience and also listening! Amazed a few fellow workers at the tracka few times! And the jim mercott trainging guys! hehe!

I dont know how you get experience on the roads without driving on the roads! same with getting experience for a job! how to get a job when you need experiece!

I have seen guys whos parents have put them through driving course cause they saw there kids as a risk! all it did was make them worse! thought they could drive the pants of Peter Brock and the rest then!

Power limits are a good thing but then at the same time not enough power can get you in the crap almost as bad! A lanos is a hazard cause of how slow they are! cant cross a busy road!

[Lumpen]

That is a good point about Low Power being as Dangerous as High Power Harasan, I know they're have been a few times when I have pulled out and have to ring the absolute sh*t out of my car to pass people because THEY'VE decided its a good idea to speed when I'm along side them. (generally Caravans when Im caught in the wrong gear). Where as If I was in Dads car it would be zip-passed and gone with no danger.

I remember also hearing that the actual crash rate was higher (percentage wise) with kids who have done advanced or defensive driver courses because, like you say they think now they have a piece of paper they're better qualified and take more risk because they think they can control all eventualities.

[trbo 6]

The power limits that are set on bikes in sydney are 150kw/tonne, that means you can get on a cbr250rr that's capable of doing 13 second quarters. Then within 2 years of having your bike license you can get a bike that has power/weight of about 600kw/tonne. That's F1 power by the age of 19. I know cause that's exactly what I did.

So why would they set a cars limit (which has a hell of allot more protection than a bike) at a lower power/weight ratio.

I think more driver training needs to go into L and P platers, but disagree with setting limits that are achieved by most cars today.

My 2 cents worth.

:banghead:

[BA_Turbs]

This list from VicRoads has been a "work in progress" for the last two and a half years. The flood of grey imports upset the testing for it, and it seems that it is not a high priority to get it back.

[Guest den_iel]

I am a P plater.

I did an easy 120 hours on the road, mostly in city traffic on my L's. when I got my P's, I was already acquainted with the road and many conditions. I have not stopped learning since I got my licence and will never stop learning on the road.

the focus needs to be on the testing phase, I have friends who passed the test after 12 hours of on road practice. TWELVE HOURS. I sat in the car of one of these friends, and he couldn't even judge the distance between his car and the car parked on the passenger side of him, I had to help him out. what is going on!? why didn't the testers pick this up!?

I have now done about 800 road hours in the 11 months I've had my licence (I worked part time as a courier for a few months) and have never had an accident. much of the onus also lies in the parent or guardian making sure their child has enough road hours and apply for their licence only when they think they are safe to do so.

quick thoughts about issues:

ban on night driving for P platers: FOS

high power limit for P platers: excellent idea (my dad's BA ghia I regularily drive has more than enough power, and that's way under the limit)

[pym]

Driver education is all well and good, but how often do you learn something only to forget about it in 12 months time.

I'm not against driver education as a pre-requisite for obtaining your licence, whether it be P or full, however this must be supplemented by enforcement of the road rules / law, as it will serve as a constant reminder to all motorists to adhere to the road rules....break them and you get penalised.

Nothing worse than getting hit in the back pocket with a fine, to keep you focused on your driving.