Driveline Shunt with our GT.

[Turbo6man]

  CDAA said:

Hi Simon,

FPV said that the fix is a few months away. Ok, so it's not instant, but it's still a commitment don't you think? Has the car being doing the shunt thing since new?

Can I ask if you love the car besides the shunt or are there other issues? You keep referring to it as a POS, which I would have thought is a bit harsh don't you think. I know it’s a $60+ car and should not have this problem, but in perspective the shunt is coming from a part worth less than 2% of the cars original value.

Sorry mate, I really empathise with you, I really do, but to class a car like a GT as a total POS because your diff has been poorly set up sounds like it's coming from someone that hates the rest of the car as well. If that’s the case then so be it.

I agree this situation is NOT ideal, not at all, but if you love the car and it's only the shunt that is concerning you why not hold on for a month or two. Imagine what it would be like when fixed?

Cheers,

Colville

So much of what Simon has related to us is word for word what Ford told me two years ago with my T3. If the part is only 2% of the car's value why won't they spend the money and just fix it???!!! Their commitment is worth ZERO because it is only WORDS and they won't take the required ACTION needed to fix the problem, as history has proven.

They also insisted to me that the problem wouldn't worsen and that it was not harming the gearbox, even offered an extra year of extended warranty - BS, the shunt got so bad in the end that the car was literally jumping up and down like a learner was at the wheel. AND this was occurring in first, second, third, and fourth gears, so that is to say, over a very wide range of road speeds and driving conditions. (It started out only in 2nd.) The car was a POS, all because the driving experience was marred by one problem. AND it could have been fixed. The T3 I have now is totally different with only very slight shunt - SO FORD, IT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALL CARS IN THE RANGE. IT CAN BE FIXED YOU F#%^&G SH!TS.

Keep plugging Simon, and if you have the drive and will, then take it all the way to the courts if you have to.

BTW - The next step I was about to embark upon was to replace the gearbox at my own expense (and obtaining an engineer's report of the before and after) - then suing Ford for the cost I was put to in effecting the repair that was rightfully their warranty responsibility.

[Turbo6man]

  HSE2 said:

For a fleeting moment I considered canceling my intended purchase and buy the Gt in the showroom at my local dealership. Possible the nicest GT I have come across and had the perfect list of options for me.

I came home and read this thread and promptly wiped any such thoughts from my mind.

That’s one missed sale because of this issue. Mondies problem just cost Ford 67k in the here and now. Keep going and it will cost them alot more in the not too distant future.

Hi Ian,

Mate, get them to give you an extended test drive - take it for a weekend. As has been said already, if the problem is not evident from new then it is probably not going to surface later on. You are aware I know of the history of my T3 and how bad it was from the moment I drove it out of the dealer's yard. It just kept getting worse. BUT the T3 I have now has the same KM on it as my original and it is as tight as ... so to speak. So there are some good ones if you're lucky.

I would consider a GTP in a couple years' time - a series two, after it was say 18 months or two years old. I reckon by then a test drive would tell me if it was an OK car or not eh?

Cheers,

Jeff.

[BA_Turbs]

OT a little, but what gear box does the T3 have Turbo6man? Is it the T5 or the T3650(? or similar) from the BA XR8/GT?

[Lumpen]

Pretty sure its the "Stronger" T3650 like the BA GT and Turbo6Man likes too call it a truck box from memory

[Turbo6man]

Yep, a TR3650 - I'm sure the TR is a shortening for TRuck.

PS In the states this gearbox is used in racing category of trucks - I've been told that it was developed specifically for this purpose as the TR3550 wasn't quite strong enough for the heavier weighted vehicles.

The box is beautiful if you are pushing sh!tloads of torque through it all the time. I couldn't fault it in any way on the track days - the shift was quick and very positive with no baulking at any speeds up or down the range. Just don't try driving it like a normal person in a normal car in normal driving/road conditions.

[Redhawk]

Some very good reading, especially the last two pages.

Having conversed with Simon on not only cars but his other passion.......

I get the distinct impression that he is a stickler for value for money and pedantic in that pursuit.......keep up the pressure on Ford mate and get satisfaction, it is a shame the enjoyment of this car has been sullied by the shunt problem and I can empathise with you that enjoyment would amount to zero with 'clunk', hop,hop 'clunk' coming from the back end all the time.

I must be one of the lucky ones (same club as Corville ), I find my GT an absolute pleasure to drive, I tend to be a little agressive with my driving and this car is just the car for that. I have not driven the AU XR8 although I came close to buying the series III, but that front end and boot lid turned me off, yes it was purely a 'looks' thing. Could not get a drive of the HSV Clubbie while waiting for the GT as the nearest dealer was in Fremantle and to tell the truth was not that keen on the HSV anyway (Ford man through and through), and could not be bothered to go up there.

I have slight drive line shunt, not anywhere near bad enough to worry about (he says, as he is getting the centre diff mounting bolt bush replaced tomorrow ), hey its a Ford fix so why not!!!. I have tried to get the diff to 'clunk' and only succeeded on my track day, very aggressive driving that day.

But, this is Fords 'flagship' and if they really want the GT name to be sononomous with the nostalgia from the late 60's and early 70's then they should get off their collective @rses and get this 'variance' problem bloody well fixed! To sell a piece of equipment with such wide tollerances in the 21st century is purely a cost decision, which really is false economy. To be really smart in the manufacturing world you need to eliminate...........waste!!. The biggest form of waste is rework, every warranty job is waste, every recall is waste. From what I have seen of Ford sevice dept's they have tackled waste in one area only, peoples waste in time, the mechanics, service people and managers are flat out, what are they flat out doing.........bloody rework and warranty.

Surely if the Japanese manufacturers can eliminate rework and variance, why is it so hard for Australian, American and whoever to do it, sure they all go to the TPM conferances and come away with better Japanese vocabulary than the average Geisha Girl but it seems little is put into practice.

Ford make a big deal about the Boss 290 motor and how every item of that motor is matched, in effect blueprinted, to get the best combination for the optimum performance of the motor, so what's so difficult in putting that practice into the whole drive train, get the manufacturers to do the same with the gearboxes, tail shafts, diffs and rear axles, then the biggest form of.....waste ....variance is all but eliminated..........it is a GT after all.......their flagship!!

Sh!t.......my fingies hurt.........time for some ice therapy, a nice chilled Crownie will do.........end of rant!!

[ZAP]

Simon and fellow clunkers,

My only advice to you is to find a driveline expert and seek their assistance.

Ask them if they think they can fix the problem. If they say yes, write to Ford and say that X company believes they can fix a problem that Ford cant fix and that you expect them to foot the bill for the work.

Get the work done and send them the bill.

Ford have now admitted in writing that there is a problem but they cant fix it...yet. Rather than turning all your energy into hating your car, get off your ass and start to take the direction and control the situation.

Being a mechanic I can tell you all that driveline clunking is not some majical problem that is happening with your car, it is one or many of these 3 items: DIFF, DRIVESHAFTS or GEARBOX nothing more nothing less.

It will be a simple mechanical fix, ajustment or replacement not F...ing rocket science. Tell Ford what you are going to do and that you expect them to foot the bill if it fixes the problem.

As you know I am picking my car up on Friday and it tears me apart reading that some of you now hate your cars because the things clunk. Think about this....it is not a HUGE deal, but its a problem that is not acceptable but it can be fixed.

I was reading about the LS1 motor and how Expensive Daewoo believe that 2.5lt of oil is acceptable consumption for 10,000km and some peopel are on their 3rd engine. At least the clunk will not stop you driving the car.

To all the people with problems, do not be negative, be possitive and take control....oh and BE HAPPY you own a great car be it 8, T or FPV

[ZAP]

  mercturbo said:

  ZapXR6T said:

I have warned my dealer that I will be spending about 1 hour inspecting and testing the car before I accept delivery.

I will not be too fussed if there are minor problems, but I will not accept the car if it has a shunt.

They know that I will be looking for this problem and the poor paint, but I am hoping it will not be an issue.

How did they react when you said this?

They said that the car will be fine.

It had better be, I am a fussy person

[HSE2]

  CDAA said:

  HSE2 said:

Indeed it has.

Haaa, your always a good read my friend and thank you for telling me about your experience.

I would agree that if you’re not satisfied with the BA models and what they deliver then should definitely not commit to one. I also drove a few VY SS (series 1) before purchasing and found it too close to the driving characteristics of my 1998 AU XR8. Although I very much liked my AU, I expected more from a 2004 model and the BA XR8 was the only one (out of the VY and the Ford) to deliver it.

Getting into the VY from the BA, felt like I was back in my AU again with the same/similar firmness, ride quality and harshness of the AU (which was fine for 1998). Not that this was a really bad thing, I’ve just already done it you see.

roundabouts I guess.

Great speaking with you (as always).

As always our summation and ideas on things are pretty bloody close. Where I differ is that in 1998 Ford struck on a set up that worked well. It found its way under models 4 years later relatively untouched. Am I looking for values from 1998 in 2004? No.

The problem is that the cars from that era were regarded best in class in key aspects of overall performance. Feed back from both the tiller and the suspension was and is superior to that of the equivalent BA model. As a performance car, where you have to live with that compromise (in Tickford speak), it did the job better and was greeted with the universal praise from most parts of the media. The T3 is still regarded as the best performance car this country has produced. I am suspicious that the much vaunted Control Blade IRS is generating the mechanical grip of the Au IRS. The BA models don't appear to have the same grip in the same conditions.

The problem is that desirable performance traits from yesteryear don’t disappear. True, they evolve but the balance is left of centre.

I applaud Ford for bringing the performance compromise towards European levels of sophistication but not at the expense of the intended purpose. The VY doesn't enjoy the steering feel or feedback of the AU series but is ahead of the BA. Ford went backwards in this area and that is unfortunate in a performance car.

The ride which is normally a secondary consideration in a handling package, for a car with 18" well I would disagree and say the VY would be a head of the AU if fitted with the same aspect rubber. Even in 2004 for a performance car that delivers on its intentions it isn't annoyingly so. Models from Audi, Subaru and BMW are very stiff in this regard and are all regarded as acceptable in 2004 because of that intended purpose. If ride refinement and NVH are primary concerns then the BA is the car to have no question. If they are then there are other cars on the market that do a better job again.

Quality between the two generations is also subjective. Consistency of plastics was an AU problem. Design and application not a strong point on BA. Joins are easier to see and misalignment easier to detect. Territory improves on this especially the centre console but it is swings and roundabouts as you say. The victory to the BA over the AU isn’t as clear cut as many would believe; BA was never intended to be the knockout blow.

Here is another BUT. While ever this problem exists in the range this model can never be regarded ahead of anything. Personally I believe the Boss cars are worse then any other model in either series. I am not sure why that would be because I don’t think the transmission is at fault. I know some T3s have this problem but towards the end of the AU run it generally appeared that they were getting over this infliction. Perhaps the Control Blade has caused another set of circumstances again. I don’t know.

The part I can’t get my head around in Simon’s case is that the responsibility is with the dealership firstly.

You have a problem with your car you take it in to the dealership and tell the guy at the counter. Your car goes to a tech. In 9 out of 10 examples the dealership is guided by the techs diagnosis of what the problem is and what the fix should be. If I understand this correctly that admission is being made. If this car isn’t at the top of a bad list of normal behavior for the example, it should be worked on free of charge. We know they have an issue by this time we f***n well get that, but the question is if there are better examples on the road that don’t have as much of a problem in this area then surely Ford have a responsibility to accept the word of the dealership and make the situation as close to the top of an ordinary list as possible. As I said even in AU days the attempt to improve was always made even with the understanding that it might not be a 100% improvement. If Simon’s car is as bad as some of the cars I have come across even a 50% improvement would be huge. If the dealership is to convince Simon to stay with Ford then they are most likely going to have to deal with his car on the flip side. On the second hand market this won’t fly. The car will continue to be a problem while ever it remains below other GT examples.

My word limit per topic has expired.

Simon best of luck. I am genuinely disappointed for you, especially after the excellent treatment afforded to you over the T series compensation. Where has that mindset gone?

[Falchoon]

  ZapXR6T said:

Simon and fellow clunkers,

My only advice to you is to find a driveline expert and seek their assistance.

Ask them if they think they can fix the problem. If they say yes, write to Ford and say that X company believes they can fix a problem that Ford cant fix and that you expect them to foot the bill for the work.

Get the work done and send them the bill.

Ford have now admitted in writing that there is a problem but they cant fix it...yet. Rather than turning all your energy into hating your car, get off your ass and start to take the direction and control the situation.

Cameron (FamiliaXR6T) tried a similar tact with the engine noise interference in his Prem Sound and Ford wouldn't come to the party. They even said that if he goes ahead and gets a supressor or other gizmo fitted and later on the ICC sh*ts itself he can kiss his warranty on it goodbye.