Lawsy

Too hard hey? You question has been answered already. The Ford ECU has a very limited memory; nearly all of it is used up with the tune parameters alone. It only records something like 5 events, or something close to that. Allot of cars run around without even logging an event in the ECU so what are you worried about? Like I said earlier, there isn't a time stamp on the file, there isn't enough space for it.....

I don't know what the Typhoon uses but the shocks used on the GT are a different brand and type than the ones used in the XR's. Camber and castor angles and toe in and out are different too. hrmm maybe I should learn to read.

I don't see why you would allow Ford to reflash your car. Your own fault. You do realise you can demand them to never change the tune? EVER? If you get your car serviced by Ford then you deserve the hasle. Get your car serviced somewhere that you can decide which oil, which filter etc etc. And you still pay less even when you put premium gear on..... IT DOES NOT VOID WARRANTEE. It is unethical and I think its also illegal for them to void your warrantee without any merit.... So, the solution: Get someone who isn't an apprentice to service your car.

There is no time stamp in the Ford ECU, period. There is no way to tell whether the ECU was edited recently, or 2 years ago. Even if there system says your car has been reflashed a certain amount of times, I honestly don't think they are going to care. Ford Aus might not like the flasher, but the apprentice working on your car is most likely to not even remember what hes doing.... Or even better, get your car serviced at auto one or something. They do a fantastic job, put the oil YOU WANT in the engine (at a cheaper price than buying it by the bottle) and don't have to worry about the ECU. Not only that, but the Ford warrantee is 100% in tact. Full coverage + better service at a better price.... Need I say more.

This is purely from memory, so don't kill me if I'm wrong. The typhoon has something like 15% stiffer fronts and 10% stiffer rears. Shockes are identicle. Like I said, this is purely from memory. But I'm fairly sure about the shocks being the same. I hope my memory is correct.

Someone should make a wind tunnel with a dyno in it.... Then pump pure oxygen through the tunnel! Too far out there? NOOOooooohhhhhhhh!!!!!! :D

I like to take the scientific approach. Aim: To find a relationship between the smile on ones face in comparrison to the smoke produced by multiple heli's and donuts. Sub aim, to wear out tyres. Method: 1. Drive to an industrial area on a weekend. 2. Rev car to 4 grand. 3. select 2nd gear. 4. sidestep the clutch and apply max throttle just after doing so. 5. Quickly use your left foot to feather the brake peddle, let go of the brake peddle as soon as the right angle to start your heli's is found; let them rip. 6. Swap tyres (front to back) and try again Results: Lots of smoke, thick, black lines throughout entire endustrial site. Multiple '8' like figures apparent, as well as multiple 'O' figures and 'donut' type figures. Rear tyres down to the belts. Conclusion: I conclude that donuts and heli's do infact put a smile on the dial, and that they make a very successful and feasable method to wearing out ones tyres. Explaining to the wife/girlfriend/mother why she needs to pick you up from an industrial area and take you to bob janes may provide a challenge. That is all...

I wasn't bagging steve out, I was simply trying to see where he was coming from and hopefully provide a feasable explanation. To me, the graphs are conclusive. Momentum in the intake side of the engine has less effect than it does on the exhaust side. A once off 20psi charge (lets say of around 10 cubic meters of air) simply doesn't have enough momentum to significantly impact power levels for any sustained period of time. So how can a 2psi spike for 250rpm possibly have a positive, continueing 30kw effect 1500 rpm later? Now, making boost saps power, do we all agree on this? A turbine does not spin itself, it requires something to push/pump air at significant velocities through it, you all agree? With that in mind, you can see that building boost uses more power than maintaining boost, quite a bit more (thus why you have retarded amounts of turbo lag when trying to build up to 30psi at the strip, etc). The unichip during the start of this 1500rpm band is still building boost, which can possibly sap power for around 500rpm, but not for 1500.... So, I, to a small degree, can see where GM MAY have been coming from. He quite possibly could be suggesting that the power loss while trying to produce max boost in the unichip could be one of many reasons attributed to producing less bottom end power, but I don't think it could be to such a degree as to be 30kw deficient throughout 1500rpm... Also remember, the more force/power you produce in an engine, the more air must be passing through it. This is fundamental. that's why if you get everything right with a turbo car, you make allot of grunt. The simple physics controlling combustion states that if you are pushing more air through the engine, there is more air available for the turbo to spool on. So if you get the timing close to perfect, more air will be available for combustion. More air available for combustion means significantly more air through the exhaust, and thus through the turbo..... Thus, the tune must be closer to optimum during this point in time. There are also allot of other possitive effects in a turbocharged engine from getting the tune close to optimum, such as intake backpressure, the Vmax of the intake charge, the amount of air passing through both sides of the turbocharger etc. They all contribute to make more grunt as a side effect of having the tune right. Synergy is your friend. One last point, we should all remember that the turbo has to spin faster to maintain 10psi at 6000rpm than it does at 1500rpm. The faster an engine spins (while making power), the more air that is being pushed through it (Read: More air required). The turbo has to spin faster to force enough air into the manifold to keep a steady 10psi. Reason: The intake charge velocity is significantly higher (more air is being used)... This last point has less to do with my above points, but I thought I might add it in anyway. Cheers.

That's probably because he is running more boost earlier in the rev range Ive seen boost graphs for unichip running 18lb at 2700rpm. My own car hits 12psi at around that which is more than what JB's edit map is running in this graph. Well, no it isn't. Although there seems to be some power differences there mid range, the edit map is running more boost earlier and later in the rev range which could very well be responsible for any difference between the two tunes. Its too early to be calling this condlusive because it has issues that doubt the end results. Until we get some more examples that provide similar results at near indentical boost levels I think it's too early to call. How? I don't understand how this is inconclusive when for around 1500rpm it is running less boost, but producing more power for the duration of this part of the rev range. If you were to stick a once off 20psi charge in the intake manifold, the engine would use this charge in about 5 turns of the crank. that's not much. Therefore extra boost at one point of the rev range has little to no effect on the power produced a few milliseconds later, given the boost is constant after this point.... Saying that coming onto boost earlier would give an added 30kw through 1500rpm is silly; this is physically impossible.....

That better not have been directed at me... Or else I'll fly over there and give you an atomic wedgy.

With NOS you say? Make sure someone has a video camera to record this!!!

Well, I think untill people have been in a skyline, they should shut there trap about the "7500 rpm launch" and the "worst lag of any turbo" comments.... Get in one and have a go before you comment. Everyone who has done so now thinks you're a smacktard, well done to those people.. With a semi decent launch (4000rpm with a bit of clutch slip), you will see mid 13's all day, every day without fail. The situation is this. Even if the GTR driver buggered the launch completely (even stalled....), prepare to be taken out as soon as it comes on boost. I have not seen a single real GTR, of any model, without a hi flow exhaust at the very least. 9 times out of 10 they will have an exhaust (on a GTR this is an instant 20rwkw plus boost 500rpm earlier), better intake, intercooler and around 5 - 6 extra psi from a boost controller. This is 11 seconds at 135+mph. That trap speed should say it all. Unless you're packing 'Geea' type heat, don't even bother.....

Keep up the good work. Far out man, that is incredible! I'm not into the "all show and no go" thing, but that is something I would have to make an exception on! Considering its for 1 person as well, it would be easy to tune all the sound waves to hit the drivers ears at exactly the same time. Everything is fully re enforced and sound proofed. The acoustics would be perfect, and you would lose no sound pressure due to body/panel flex. The driver sits central which gives no left/right reflection in the high end. Not only that, but because they are using 15", 12" and 10" subs all at the same time, with the right crossovers you could range the subs so that the 15"s take only the 5 - 30hz bass range (Well I enjoy the feel of subsonics so..... Doesn't need to be heard to be felt!), the 12"s handle 30 to 80hz and the 10"s handle 80 and onwards till the midranges at the front kick in.... I'm fairly sure they would have done something similar to this. This makes it easy to get a nice, linear progression through the whole bass range without having those anoying "peaky" notes sometimes in the 80 - 120hz range. The quality would annihilate 99.9% of all car audio systems ever installed...... Remembering that pressure level isn't quality. It doesn't need to be the loudest to be theoretically (quality wise) the best. Yes please!

Should go the armourall tyre shiner. Not only will it last longer, its easy to apply and gives a deeper/blacker/wetter look than the cheap stuff.

Eugenes injectors, PM him and you will get them for under 500. 2500 left to spend. CAI - 40 up to 200 dollars depending on what/where you get it (how much does nizpro's entire intake plenum cost? This could be an option, apparently the driveability increase is just out of this world). So still over 2000 to spend. Edit, 1300. Tune, 500 ish. 1800 all up. 500 to spend. How much is a hi flow cat? Probably close to 300 or thereabouts. And the cats are really the only restriction in the stock exhaust untill around 300rwkw. So this is money well spent for sure. And you have some change left over. Theres an example of how to spend 2800 roughly. That would probably end up being roughly 12psi and around about the 270 - 280kw mark... I'm sure martin could improve on this, and/or find you a good deal. Ring around nizpro, aps etc and find out what there intercoolers are going for as well. I'm sure in 6 months time you would want to gain another 10 or so kw, and an intercooler would probably allow for this.

I'd like to see macka's car run down the quarter just too.... Well, just to see it run down the quarter........ Don't really care what time he gets, just wanna see that shaker fly past. But yeah, the figures would also help prove how much more kickarse his car would be with an edit...

Looks good mate, nice job.

Well you just have to think logically about it and you can see what the answer would be. First up, developement. GM aren't going to directly develope the TT unless they plan to use it on a GM car (which I haven't heard yet). I wouldn't think saab are going to freely share with Expensive Daewoo either, and they are developing a single turbo V6 (from memory). So this doesn't really suit the commode. So strait up, Expensive Daewoo have to develope most of this project themselves. More cost. Ok, after that, its about market share and position. Currently their V8's are dominating the market and are already as fast as our T's off the showroom floor. So there is the "why bother" reason there as well. Then there is productoin costs. 2 turbo's instead of our 1. Regardless of which turbo they use (read: cheap), this is an unavoidable double cost. Double the pipework throughout the engine etc, and all the crap that goes with it. Allot more involved that a single turbo setup. So productoin costs would simply suck ass. With my reasoning, why would they bother. The LS2 would not only cost them so much less money that it isn't funny, but it will produce more power and torque off the bat and has room for around 400kw in street trim.... In my mind, there just isn't a point. They are making too much money in the V8 to bother.... I could be wrong, but hey, that's what discussion is all about PS, Old school pantera goes hard..... Just dragged out Vulgar and am enjoying it thoroughly.... :D

Move it to chit chat mate......

Good stuff big fella. 11's here we come!

The lights in the BA are damn bright anyway.... Dare someone to stick there head near the blinker at night time and stare into it.... You'll see what I mean cause they are like friggen high beams......

I don't get it, 500 dollars just to make it more obvious that you have a turbo? Without any performance increase? Doesn't make sense to me.... Then again, I'm fairly anti rice so..... Actually, I'm against anything that doesn't make your car go faster or handle better.... Yeah ok, a good body kit makes it look good, or dumping it and debadging etc, but the KISS rule applies.

And you dont know enough about programming of EEPROMS that run car ECU software. Sure tuning can make a big difference, but dont minimise the products influence too. There are several ways that Edit type software can be done, and it is very simplistic to say there wont be any MAJOR differences between them. There definitely can be huge differences. There are two main ways to do the so-called Edit software. 1) Work out how the existing one works. Work out where it stores its values in the registers (memory). Alter those registers (many of which are pre-set in the factory ECU tune), and you can therefore alter things like max boost, various mappings etc. You then upload that slightly modified standard ECU software to the ECU. 2) Reverse engineer the factory code. Find out what it does, what it expects from the various sensors, what it sends to the various parts of the car, and also how it reacts to various scenarios. (You can do most of that on a dyno). Create code that does the same, but since you wrote this code (even though it may be based on reverse engineered ie decompiled code) you can make it do whatever you want, and make software that allows tweaking and the production of new binary files that can then be uploaded to the car. The differences between the two can be VAST. The first one allows you to change things within the parameters established by the factory software. This can be good as often factory software is well written. However the second, if done properly, can be even better. Not only can it theoretically do everything the factory software can do, but as you are writing your own software not just changing values, you can also get it to do extra things that arent even available to the factory software. So, although you have tried to make it look simple, tried to make the products look equal, and tried to say people are being sucked in by advertising, you are saying so without understanding how these factory systems work, and how these custom modified binary files are created. If you dont understand that, you cant understand everything that they can do. If you dont understand what they can do, then you definitely cant say they are all equal. Your argument is fundamentally flawed. QED. I just think someones trying to shift some units before the monopoly ends. It's unfortunate that joe consumer can't make his/her own decisions based on what they feel comfortable with, and not be victims of a sales campaign... No-one can tell me product x is better than product y, if there is no product y.. btw, it's not just the product being sold. It's a complete package, down to the feature set, customer relations/service, warranty etc etc etc.. The current Edit can modify the entire engine/transmission memory allocation, has already reverse engineered the software and gives tables and values for every modifyable function available within the ECU's programable range. Whether its a new binary file or based on the existing one, it doesn't matter. If you know what every variable does and you have modified each one to your exacting specifications then there is no point on writing the whole thing again. Things like dashboard re assignment, as far as I am aware (I'd love to be 100% sure on this though, so please correct me if I'm wrong), are controlled seperately... Knowing this, then you can clearly see that, in this instance, an edit is an edit. I'm sure APS are not going to release something that is limited and from the information provided (which has mostly been proven already) the current one isn't. But whatever.... As long as the thing grabs the engine by the balls and shoots them out of a cannon down the quarter mile, who cares, right? blah blah Its called an edit, we are not re writting the software for the car.... I understand completely where you are coming from, but NO ONE is going to be able to re write the code to do all of the things you have suggested are possible. You should already know this, the memory allocation for the ford ECU is just too limited for this to be even remotely possible. This isn't a motec mate. We don't have 10mb to play with to run various strings of code and differential equations for every possible situation. I think its something like..... hrmm 500k? From what programming I have done and without any compression (because you can't just .rar up a file for the ECU now can we) 500k can't do all that much. So if you can rewrite the code for the ECU, keeping all of the current safety features, keeping all factory functionality, get an ideal state of tune and on top of that, write in just one extra thing in there, say that 'always boost' feature, then I'd like to see it.... You of all people should know that even if its 500k +1byte, it aint gonna fit..... So my comment still stands. The current Edit can modify EVERY controllable function currently in the Ford ECU memory.

Why doesn't that supprise me....

Price tag = lose They are about $5K You get what you pay for, that includes tyres though (afaik)