@amm, that's all well and good. So how do you explain myself and plenty of others getting dramatically better results and temps from direct changes from plaz tube and fin to pw bar and plate? We're not talking about Jap race cars here bud, wrong forum. Joe at CMS is a specialist at these barra fords and bases most of his business around it. From what I gather, and I'm far from an expert, is that you need an intercooler that will have the least gain in IATs over a given time. This allows you to tune within the factory safeguards that adjust spark etc to prevent damage. I'm sure some tuners may simply disable these but in my opinion that's the wrong way of going about a problem. Over the past few months we've seen plenty of proof that the pw coolers obtain a much smaller temperature increases over the dyno runs compared to the plazmaman tube and fin intercoolers they market for the falcons. I'm not saying that this means they aren't a good cooler, especially in race cars and these 8 second 4 bangers you go on about, but the cars we are talking about here are simply not race cars. IMO and I believe it is completely backed up from my own cooler swap and countless other evidence, the PW bar and plate coolers are a MUCH better application for our cars.