troytroy

As some people have alluded to, the fixation of comparing rwkw between different engne types and body types and weights is relatively nebulis. One one extreme you could have a 2002 SV8 with auto, high stall converter (lessens dyno power figure), small baby cam that focuses more on low-mid power and torque rather than top end (again not the best dyno queen option) has low dif ratio 3.7 or 3.9 in an older 5.7 Litre LS1 and it will absolutely kill and walk all over new (HEAVIER) LS3 and LS2 powered HSV's etc. It will probably only put out 250-260rwkw but it will run mid 12's and low 12's on slicks. Add some heads to it and you'll get even more important mid-range torque and power...and you'll be into the 11's but still below the 300rwkw mark. or you could run a 400rwkw Turbo and wheelspin your way to a high 12 on your twenty inch street tyres... There are extremes on both sides of the Holden/Ford modification scene. There are alot of new LS3 HSV's running expensive superchargers and then getting their arse handed to them by a cam only 5.7 litre cars. Most of the LS1 guys will probably spend a third of their mods on driveline mods to increase their performance over the qaurter. Clucthes/coverters, diffs, tyres, suspension. Getting the power steadily and consistantly across a wide power band and importantly, off the line is where it's at. It's interesting to observe across the forums that new car owners tend to focus on dyno figures, whilst older car owners will focus on how quick it is. It's always easier to get a good dyno queen figure, than convert that to a quarter time

Places that say that "you don't need a 100cpsi cat" are usually ones that don't stock them.......and or don't know crap about their product or performance requirements!!! The word "NEED" in the converstaion is absolutely laughable. Mods are't about need, they're about want. By changing the Cat you are WANTING more power. 100cpsi is simply better than 200cpsi. Flow is god - especially in Turbo cars. If you're going to the effort and expense of changing out a cat -do it right the first time and get a 100cpsi. "100cpsi cat will void warranty and EPA test" Well, no sh*t Sherlock. A 200cpsi cat wont either or a 300cpsi or pretty well any high flow aftermarket cat. If in the 1 in 300,000 chance that you get pulled over by Mr EPA, I don't think they're going to give a flying crap what cpsi cat you have in, as anything aftermarket looking will get you a trip to the pits anyway. Will there be a massive difference between a 200cpsi or a 100cpsi - not really. But if the price is similar - it's a no brainer. Just make sure it's a metal core and not a ceramic core.

The problem isn't the gearbox. The T56 has gone through a couple of iterations over the years from MM6 to MM12 etc. The T56 is a bloody strong box that has withstood hundreds of owners running superchargers and turbos and harsh triple plate clutches for quite some while. Over the last 6-12 months (?) the gearbox in the new HSV's is now the TR6060 (same one that initially came out in the W427). The reason why the torque stayed the same was probably the clutch and HSV engineers being told by been counters to go home earlier, and leave a growth path for future models. The LS3 has plenty of potential and is very detuned in torque and power (similar to Ford Turbo's in that regard). Most LS3 owners are getting around 270-280rwkw when tuned and exhaust and 310-330rwkw with a cam and 340-380rwkw when supercharged and 400rwkw+ when turbocharged. These are obviously only rough figures and there will be exceptions etc.

If they don't add bigger rear tyes on the next model, they don't deserve to sell any. Getting around with the power and torque outputs they have now with 245s is bordering on irresponsible. I'd love to know what an XR6T or even better an FPV F6 with half worn tyres will do 0-100 and the quarter mile just to see the tyres overall effect on performance. Most people on these forums will statistically have half worn tyres? At least with 265s and above you can get away with it a little more with the torque outputs.

Concur with Mr Bean. Equivalent power is one thing, Torque in force fed cars will generally be higher than an equivalent powered N/A car. Another factor is where the torque occurs, How quickly the torque comes on and how effectively you can convert that torque to the ground. For high powered rear wheel drive cars that struggle for traction (thanks to under tyred Australian Sedans) a force fed car that has a very tight power band may be less effective than a more linear NA car that smoothly delivers power to the tyres. Conversely, if you can get the power to the ground - then Force fed cars will kill a NA car. Even a 290rwkw HSV will be dramatically different to another 290rwkw HSV depending on what cam (torquey or top end type) is being used, whether it's an auto and has a high stall converter (which reduces dyno output), if it's a manual whether it has 3.9 diff gears, does it have heads - which will effect its overall torque curve. And then there's the driver and the tyres. Power is not generally a very good comparative tool for how quick two heavy sedans can shuffle - especially when the power outputs start getting higher.

Proves what everyone has suspected: 1. The F6 needs some wider wheels/tyres from the factory. Why Ford/FPV hasn't done this is, is beyond me. How much torque and power are they going to screw out of these cars before some bright spark engineer thinks about adding some tyres wider than a base spec 1.8 litre Euro crap box. After hearing of how much torque these turbo cars can have across the rev range...it's just asking for excessive tyre wear and some rediculously common tyre changes. Do FPV owners get shares in Goodyear? With staggered wheels, these things would crap all over the Euro top spec stuff - then it could maintain traction/composure/safety throughout a 400m dash. 2. The HSV needs to be tuned better. Dropping in a 6.2 litre LS3 after the 6.0 litre LS2 and not gaining a single Nm extra of torque - HSV engineers are being gay and making stupid timing/air/fuel curves on the mapping. 3. Aussie muscle sedans are getting fatter and heavier every year. If you graph the gain in weight on the average V8 aussie car and you continue with this trend - by 2018 an HSV could weigh 2.2 tonnes. 4. The Ford/Expensive Daewoo debate continues to with the usual biased slander - it is fun though