cuspub

Where are you situated 351?

Bugeyedcreepy. It will - for everyone's sake - be brilliant once an edit system is available for the Ford ECU. As is the case with the LS1 whereby the tuning of this particular engine genre (in common with the US built V6 and even 4 cylinder engines) is catered for by LS1 Edit (and now a vastly superior tuning tool called VCM Suite), both of which are not in fact real time tuning tools. This said, with the advancements of VCM Suite, finite tuning is relatively easily achieved and the results can and often are nothing short of stunning. As you suggest Bug, the design of these tuning tools means that a tuner (whether home or Pro) can adjust virtually every factory parameter to cater for such things as ignition, fuel, limiters, and everything else you can think off, providing the ability to cater for a myriad of modifications ranging from compression to cam to head and even super or turbocharging. I'm sure everyone is looking forward to seeing this new product. Greg Brindley.

Yep, it's the final as per the web site: NATIONAL Expensive Daewoo V FORD SHOW MELBOURNE (National Finals) 19-21 November 2004 As Good As It Gets... With 4 rounds now complete & Sydney approaching fast thought its time to top everybody up on what’s been happening & what’s coming. Perth & Brisbane over the last couple of months were huge... 50% more entries & Double the crowd over 2003 which proves the changes we have made to the shows format are working… The entertainment value for entrants and public is now spot on, so we hope you enjoy this years event. This years Melbourne event is our National Finals, with the Best of the Best from All Show & Horsepower categories travelling to Victoria to challenge the locals for the Prestige of being. Cheers. GB

www.xr6-turbo.com.au will be attending the forthcoming Sydney Expensive Daewoo Ford show with their Stage 3 red Ute. Likewise, they will also be at the Victorian show in November as will Nizpro with what should be the wildest XR6T in the country. Greg Brindley.

geea, as proposed, I have posted a response on your original thread. Greg Brindley.

Further to your comments on the APS thread: "Ok seeing as my last intercooler thread got killed off due to this thread starting and seeing how I'd still like to know more about intercoolers than just APS's advertising spiel, could I get some comments on the following link. I think I found it on here somewhere (not sure where), and if people would like to share their thoughts that would be great. LINK This isn't thread hijacking or bagging anyone I'm just after information from various sources. If people aren't happy postiong here cause its in the APS section post in my original thread, HERE. Geea." I had a long read through the ARE intercooler page and have to say that – aside from being incredibly lengthy – it is about as honest and forthright as one could hope. Nizpro agrees with the majority of comments made by the ARE author, however the problem with reading this or George’s or anyone else’s comments for that matter, is that at the end of the day they are ‘just’ comments. If I were to post a long thread claiming this and that, I too would only be adding to what has already become a bit of a dog’s breakfast. It’s like you go in to buy a DVD player only to walk out an hour latter totally confused! What I see as the most important aspects regarding Intercooling is how a product performs in the real world. What I would love to do would be to stage a test; Placing side by side – back to back – an APS, Nizpro, CAPA and any other aftermarket kitted XR6 vehicles (not development mules – rather private cars that are untouched Phase 3 or Stage 2 or whatever) whereby the intake side of the system is probed to provide: Pre intercooler temperature, pre intercooler pressure, post intercooler temperature, and post intercooler pressure. Using the following figures only as an example, we would be wanting to achieve something like this: Stage 2 Nizpro running at 13 psi, 300rwkw, 1 psi pressure drop,15 degrees above ambient. A test of the APS Phase 3 along with say CAPA’s water to air intercooled combination would follow, noting that the exact same testing procedure (making sure the playing field was level – same fuels used, same ambient temperature, same driver, and an absolutely independent tester) was followed and everyone will be the wiser! Nizpro has no qualms being involved.

Not a bad statement for a first post.......aye......? Indeed Macktheknife. And of course stage 2 of Brian's upgrades is just around the corner. Now if fred has been for a spin in Brian's car as it is now, just wait until the new combination goes together. Umm, anyone have a spare Kimby nappy? Greg Brindley

As this is an APS thread, Nizpro will not weigh into the discussion. Geea, I hope you understand as we have no intention of hijacking a thread. Greg Brindley.

We have no qualms supplying a Nizpro intercooler on its own, the problem is adapting it to suit the rest of the combination. GB

Hey there geea. I'm sorry I couldn't make it down to show you around Nizpro as I had hoped, however by the sounds of it Simon took some time out of his hectic schedule to give you a rough idea of the things that happen in his 'small' but equally impressive workshop. As suggested in your post, let's keep this thread on the straight and narrow, something I believe you would have noticed is the only way I play the game these days. In turn the following a my response to your questions and other comments I have read so far on the thread. You mentioned the Ferrari. For the record, it is an F355 being equipped with a custom fabricated twin turbocharged set-up. You may have also noticed a Veilside body kitted 350Z also lying around? Well, it too is being fitted with a twin turbo combination; requested by the owner who after going for a drive in a 350Z that Simon had already equipped with a similar package, just had to have it. He couldn't believe that a car could go so incredibly hard and yet idle like a pussycat, and be driven comfortably to the local shops by a grandmother. Geea, these are the sorts of things that Simon (Nizpro) is all about. And this is why people entrust him with $300,000 cars. Likewise, as Bcl as explained, Simon is the owner of DynoLogic, a chassis dynamometer company building leading edge products containing software that - right now - is years ahead of anything else on the market. The OBD2 port interface allows him to view every single parameter in the Ford ECU (literally many many thousands). In other words, why do you think the Cobra kits incorporate the custom plenum and the other 160 or so bits? Because development on the engine and chassis dyno - with the assistance of the world's best dyno software as well as OBD2 - provides him with more number crunching and analysis ability that any other company in this country. Geea, you are one of the few who has now seen just a glimpse of the things that go on at that little place called Nizpro. You touched on power at various boost levels comparing two different brands of product. Once again it is as a consequence of development that has resulted in good power at low boost levels hence no need in up to around 310-320 rwkw levels for valve springs. Why? Because the lack of boost dictates that the valve is not pushed open as boost rises. You also mentioned an old turbo6 dyno sheet. Noted elsewhere in the forum (under the SA cruise from memory), turbo6 told how his car was put up against a Phase 3 from a local workshop with a resultant 317 rwkw for the Cobra Stage 2 and 315 rwkw for the APS Phase 3. Both of these cars are going to be taken to the drag strip for further comparison. My point being that with the Stage 2 you can achieve the 320rwkw level - if so desired - however Simon prefers to keep the numbers lower for the sake of keeping the internals in one piece! You also alluded to a secret; (I can't say any details (I think they know where I live), but , bloody hell it was truely amazing. Maybe Cuspub can elaborate abit more when he is able). Well, it's no big secret really, taking up space in Nizpro's engine dyno cell is a stock stroke XR6 Turbo engine with the same internals as Bcl's, most of the normal Stage 2 bolt on pieces including the plenum, and with custom Nizpro extractors and turbo. A MoTeC ECU is there but has been problematic with the manufacturer currently looking at modifying their software to solve the problems. As a consequence, development (tuning) has stopped at the moment. Mind you, Simon only pulled the plug once he has turned the wick up to 18 psi (he plans on taking it to around 23psi), with Optimax fuel and to 6500rpm. He's happy with the result of 850 horsepower at this level, but concerned that the lack of MoTeC control is keeping a lid on things. Once the MoTeC software is sorted, the engine is given another 5 psi of boost and the revs are pushed to 7500, expect in excess of 1000hp. Talking engine internals. I can only suggest, however I feel incredibly confident, that Nizpro knows more about these engines than any other shop in the country; their weaknesses, strengths, where to modify, how to modify, what to change, what to add, and so it goes. Toying with workshops that are merely looking at replacing pistons and rods is a long way from solving potential problems. Finally, my thoughts on intercoolers I believe are born out in the earlier comments surrounding research. By combining a quality intercooler that isn't so large that it interferes with radiator cooling, with a properly sized and flowing plenum et al, you end up with a product capable of delivering exceptional power at low boost levels. Thanks for your post geea. Greg Brindley.

Another Nizpro stealth machine huh!

Peter, I appreciate that the specific Getrag mentioned as fitted to the M5 may not be your choice, however it is – as far as I can decipher – the strongest RWD transmission available from the Getrag stable. The alternative I suppose could be that recommended for the Nissan Skyline GTR, Toyota Supra, and Supra Turbo, the 233, however it is only rated at 490Nm. Model 448 appears to be the strongest in the Getrag range, suffice to say it is a transaxle type and with 540Nm rating is supplied for the Porsche Turbo and GT3 (amongst others). I didn’t realise it wasn’t a sensible comparison between the T56 and Getrag, certainly given that the same T56 is used in the US on cars weighing in excess of 1800kgs. But okay, if this is the case, which model Getrag are you considering? I will of course understand if you won’t tell me for commercial reasons. Finally, I know it’s not my place, but having read the other posts about you running the Mal Wood trans in your car at Queensland, I am quite interested to know how it held up. I ask because of the success Bcl has been having with his, and was wondering whether you were as happy with it as Brian? Cheers. Greg Brindley.

I'm sorry folks, I neglected to add the URL pertaining to Getrag's specifications. Getrag Greg Brindley

Nizpro, I guess like everyone involved in supplying parts for the XR6 Turbo, has investigated a myriad of alternatives as far as both manual and auto transmissions is concerned. I mean, when selling a product that increases torque output (Noting that toque is how transmissions are rated, not horsepower) to in excess of 800Nm, you are or can potentially be faced with a hand granade. So we all start looking around at the various options from that used in the Supra, yada yada. At the end of the day we all simply want something that holds together under duress, and from what I have been able to decipher, the Mal Wood conversion has worked well behind Bcl's engine (which I would say is delivering closer to 850Nm). The Getrag used by BMW for their awesome M5 is Model 226, a 'box that is rated by Getrag as their strongest of the series, however it is rated at 'to 500Nm', which I would have to say is a very long way from the 800 + NM produced by the Nizpro Stage 3. This being the case Peter, why do you think it would be a better option than the T56? (besides shift quality). Greg Brindley.

Due to the inordinate amount of time required to fit the damn things, it becomes expensive. The springs are thge inexpensive part, so allow a little over $800 fitted. Greg Brindley.

Sorry Blown BA, given that fitting takes at least 5 if not 6 hours - if labour was included in the cost mentioned earlier, we would I imagine be on a level playing field with the sort of costs associated with slave labour in 3rd world countries :-)

Ms700. My Pleasure. Greg Brindley.

Nizpro has its own springs (designed to cater for both stock and high lift camshafts) with a retail price of $260 inclusive of GST. They're manufactured with less coils (for high lift applications) and via thicker material have a higher rate. They fit directly without any modification what so ever. ktford is right in that they can be fitted while the head is still in place, however it is a laborious job (irrespective of what spring you use) and should only be carried out using the factory Ford tool. But even with this tool you are still looking at between 5 - 6 hours to fit the springs. Greg Brindley.

Thanks for the update Greg, very interesting. How far off is the completion of the project? Dollars we would be looking at? I know there would be some members on the forum interested in buying a 450kw out of the box car with all of the go fast, stop fast bits! Would probably make the DJR car look like bad value for money me thinks! :lol: Sorry JB, haven't been keeping as good an eye on the forum as I should have. At this point it is perhaps a tad too early to look at costs and so forth, becasue there are a number of things under consideration. Sorry I can't be more specific. One thing I do know though is that HO are doing their best to create a range of hardware (body kit components, wheel spacers, ECU covers et all) to help with the cosmetics of the vehicle. Now it is up to us to make sure the mechanicals are right. Greg Brindley.

Now that's an interesting question. It all comes down to what if any other modifications have been done to the car. I say this because of the design of the Nizpro system whereby it is placed on the driver's side, not the passenger side. It would be a case of having a look at out package. I've modified an image and attached it here that will assist in deciding whether the Nizpro cold air intake would be applicable.

Hi Frank. Thanks for the question; suffice it to say that I believe I have covered this in an earlier post whereby we can show you bent rods from an engine developing 'only' 300 rwkw. This said, we all know that there will be the occasional 'lemon' out there, and for all intents and purposes we at Nizpro believe that you are starting to really push the envelope at around the 320kw mark. As to durability testing, I wonder if any other aftermarket supplier (specifically relating to the XR6 Turbo) has had several XR6 Turbo engines on their own in-house dyno for days and weeks on end performing genuine endurance testing: Factory tests typically involve a 200 hour torture test, something that simply can't be duplicated on anything other than an advanced electronically controlled engine dynamometer. Taking RPM Frank, that’s a great question. To date the only XR6 engine Nizpro has run over the factory rev limit is an early development mule whereby engine internal changes consisted of balancing, blueprinting, billet rods, heavy-duty valve springs, and stock pistons. It spun to 7500rpm no problems with over 20 psi of boost. All of the engines I related to in my earlier post all ran at the factory rev limit! Greg Brindley.

Zap, just for the record, Nizpro sells every part of their Stage 1 and 2 kits on an individual basis for anyone wanting such things as - for example - the intercooler, plenum, battery and mount, cold ait intakes and so it goes. Greg Brindley.

Interesting banter guys. Peter, I suspect that you base your opinion on rod integrity because you have never had a problem with them, therefore it is quite a logical thought to suggest that there is not need to change then. Unfortunately Nizpro has had to rebuild quite a number of engines for the simple reason that rods either bend or let go with power levels - in some cases - of no more than around 300 rwkw. Why? Because no engine is the same, and it must be stated that QC with the XR6 Turbo is certainly lacking. Core shift as alluded to in this thread, is prevalent, and in some cases Nizpro has seen engines whereby the No 1 cylinder wall thins down to just 1.6mm. Not good if you intend increasing boost! I have attached an image of a bent rod from an engine recently sent down from Queensland (it came down surrounded by the rest of the engine I should add), I could also show you images of knackered bearings (the failure for which I am not going to explain as it will provide some with answers that they need to work out for themselves) that have come out of engines with just 2000k on the clock, but which are almost unserviceable - perhaps partly as a consequence of every engine being different, poor quality control and so forth. Four (4) blueprinted, billet rod and forged piston equipped engines have gone out the door in the past week, another is about to land from Dandenong, as is one from Tasmania and another from S.A. Why are all of these engines coming to Nizpro? Because the rods and or bores and or bearings are failing. Finally, we have not seen any engines that from memory have suffered piston breakage. This normally comes down to tuning - read detonation. Greg Brindley.

For the record fellas, Nizpro is working with HO to create a vehicle to be produced in large enough numbers to make it eligible to compete in GTP. The intent is to offer a range of 'delete' options, meaning the homologation model would have the Stage 3 450kW engine, killer brakes, suspension et all, and the 'delete' option road version will - at the discretion of the purchaser - delete those options they do not want. Wayne Draper who was in fact the designer behind many of the HO products runs HO. His side of the equation is to design and manufacture body kits, with Nizpro completing the mechanical combination.

The Nizpro engine that ran at 7500rpm did of course use MoTeC, and the mods to that engine were machining, Cobra billet rods and valve springs. Absolutely nothing more. Greg Brindley.