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Well here are the facts The motor has only ever been opened Twice firstly by Nuford two years when the car had a cam timing issue and now. When the motor was opened this time the timing was correct. There are identical dents in all of my pistons which are carboned over suggesting it has run with these dents. According to the report when Nuford repaired the timing issue it was two teeth to far advanced. The cam phasers will always start at 10 degrees camshaft advance ( that's 20 degrees crankshaft retard). Two teeth means that the cams are a further 17.14 degrees further advanced or 34.28 crankshaft degrees retard. This motor at startup would have had the valves opening 54.28 crankshaft degrees too early. Due to the fact that the camshaft phasers allow upto 50 degrees camshaft retard, or 100 degrees crankshaft advance, these motors have large recesses in the pistons to clear the exhaust valves as the exhaust valves can be nearly completely open at full camshaft retard when the piston reaches TDC. The intake valves are larger than the exhaust valves and as such need more clearance so they dont hit pistons but there is no recess for the intake valves in the pistons as under normal operating conditions they shouldnt be anywhere near each other. This image isnt for a barra but is good for a referance. To advance the camshaft timing move TDC to the right and you will see that at 54 degrees the intake valves are about 3/4 open To see the motor in full camshaft retard move TDC 100 degrees to the left

Hi All Having had the Engine Exchange complete the report on the engine I can now confirm that even with the valves being bent they did a vac test on the cylinders and showed that they were still sealing within 80% of perfect which according to them is more than acceptable to have the vehicle run properly.. I also have spoken with another dealership who have confirmed that if the cams were out by two teeth in advance then there is no doubt that the pistons will have kissed the valves. It has also been suggested that I bolt the head back on and advance the cams by two teeth to see if there is any contact which I will do. That said Nuford have still got there heads in the sand just hoping I will go away but that's not likely to happen. For those who have suggested it would be easier to put my hand in my pocket and just fix it well you are right but that said Im not going to back down now its just not right.

Thanks guys I do appreciate your opinions even if our views differ slightly

Today the vehicle has been taken to the Engine Exchange for a thorough report as to what has caused the engine failure, they will be checking the valves for leakdown with a vacume tester and will also measure how bent the valves actually are. I also recieved the history from Nuford stating that when the timing chain guide failed it was two teeth out and displaying two codes P1381 and P1386 very similar to the thread titled "Serious metal to metal noise". Nuford are predictably burying there head in the sand hoping I will go away, but I can afford to loose and will personally not back down as I feel so strongly about this.

All of them

Nope the reliefs are for the exhaust have this pic which shows them on the exhaust

What do you mean 220 kms its only done 90,000kms Plus win or lose I won't back down if I believe I am right

Well this has happened before

I too don't want to upset anyone as you have all been helpful but I have the proof " these valves are bent" they also have a funny wear pattern on the stem as though they have worn on one side add to this when you press the valve back into the seat with your hand it sticks there because it has cocked itself into place, plus what would you expect to have happened to these valves as they have obviously hit the pistons

Spoke to ford HQ yesterday still no report from Nuford so I made a report giving them all the relevent info and pics. They got back to me today and were fairly helpful but have said that they will only warrant manufacture issues and this is a workmanship issue which I will have to take up with Nuford. I questioned them in regards to if the chain guide replacement was repaired to there standards and they said that the repair would have been authorised by them but they would have only been able to go on the info from the Nuford mechanic and they need to warrant there own work. I also got hold of the report that was made when the guide failed and it mentioned that the timing was out by 2 teeth on both cams but no mention as to weather it was two teeth advanced or retarded. I know many have said that they have seen them retarded even further with no damage but if they were advanced the intake valves will be more likely to contact the pistons. As far as I know the intake valves start to open just prior to the piston hitting the TDC so if they opened earlier then the valves could be nearly all the way opened by the time the piston hits TDC. I'm sure there is some camshaft guru out there that can validate what I am saying?

Another point is that when they did the compression check they would have all been down as the valves are all bent generally you are looking for the difference in results

I thought the same but from what I have been recently told by the Forman of another ford dealership when warranty work is done on a falcon the info and or pics must be sent to ford Australia as it is an Aussie built car, from there ford will give instruction as to what to repair/ replace if this isn't done then they don't get paid so I guess my frustration at nuford is somewhat unjustified

That's what I meant

What sort of car was this as it seems pretty unlikely for the barra motors to drop valves

Don't take it personal ratter I certainly didn't think it was possible but from what head exchange said it is! I just don't understand when it was returned with the broken guide and sounding like it did why they didn't pull a plug and look with the endoscope

That's right and poor fuel can put valve impressions in your pistons

Nuford got back to me today and have asked to see the log book and at some time they will need the car to check that it hasn't been tuned

Ok thanks mate was hoping you would reply that question. Still hoping to prove you wrong on the valves leaking though

As it stands I have now formalised it in writing and given them the opportunity to repair the vehicle, from here I will contact ford hq I will also contact the motor trade association and start to proceed with plans to go to court, this will also require me to have the engine thoroughly examined with a report on there findings. This report will hopefully prove the valves have no leak down, that they have not seized in the head, that the marterials have not been overheated and that the rest of the valves are also bent. Can someone tell me if when the guide broke which one was it and would they have replaced it with a different type to what was originally fitted. I'm not going to give up on this as I don't feel that what has happened is right, thanks too all for there help and support I only hope that I get what is right

I agree if there was any loss of compression it would likely run poor, but the bend in these valves is only slight and the spring weight alone has been bending them shut finally resulting in the catastrophic failure.

So I guess I check the valves don't leak and then remove them to see if they are bent? Remember these valves have without doubt made serious contact with the pistons I would be more surprised if they were strait

Finally heard back from Nuford and his answer was that Ford has decided its not a warranty claim! When I asked for it in writing it seems that Nuford alone has decided its not a warranty claim.I also had my mechanic pull out a inlet valve and in the lathe it showed an slight bend easily seen to the eye.

Just checked with ford Australia, they haven't received anything from nuford

Not going to touch the head myself just waiting to see what happens today

This is all true and from my understanding the cams need to be overly advanced for the intake valves to hit the pistons, but that being said it has happened. When the chain jumped it was just after it changed from first to second, after it happened I lost all power quickly came to a stop and the motor was still just running but it sounded awful something like putting something in the spokes of your bike. I mentioned this to the head mech and he said it was because it was overly advanced and it was dieseling. I didn't believe what he said but had no choice