Bar And Plate Vs. Tube & Fin

[xpl0sive]

Hi Guys,

I've been reading about this topic for a long time now, but I can never find a definitive answer. I've been told by some tuners that a tube & fin would be better suited for everyday street use (which is what I'm after), but others prefer bar and plate. It seems that a lot of the people on here are running bar and plate coolers, and all the site sponsors seem to offer bar and plate coolers. Other than Plazmaman, I haven't really found anyone else selling quality tube & fin coolers for the XR6 Turbo. Is there a reason for this? Is it cheaper to produce bar and plate? Is it a better type of cooler all round? Would love to hear opinions from those with experience on what would be a better cooler for street use. From what I've gathered so far, it seems like a tube & fin would be better for the street, while a bar and plate would be better for drag, but would like to hear peoples' opinions anyway before I make my decision on what cooler to buy. I'm not looking to get the biggest cooler I can get my hands on, I just want a quality cooler that is capable of supporting the power figures I'm after (low 300's) with CONSISTENCY, looks good behind the bar while keeping the engine bay as close to the factory look as possible.

Cheers fellas

[freeze_dk]

"borrowed" this off another forum

Tube and Fin

Pros:

Generally weighs about half as much as a bar and plate core of similar dimensions

Generally less expensive

Generally less flow restriction within the core than bar and plate designs

Less flow restriction through the exterior allowing better flow to the rear of the core and to a radiator, AC condenser, tranny or oil cooler, etc. which may be behind it

Cons:

Those with less flow restriction than bar and plate cores offer less heat rejection

Generally have more fins which means they're more likely to be damaged by rocks/debris which cuts down on cooling efficiency

Charge air entry extends beyond core wall making it more difficult for air to enter the core cleanly

Bar and Plate

Pros:

Generally off greater heat rejection than tube and fin design

Those with turbulators offer even greater heat rejection

Offered in tons of varying shapes and sizes

Less likely to be damaged by rocks and debris

Charge air entry sits flush with core allowing for cleaner entry

Cons:

Weighs about twice as much as a similarly size tube and fin core

More expensive

Blocks more airflow to radiators, etc. which may be behind it

Those with turbulators have greater flow resistance to charge air

Remember that there's a balancing act between cooling and airflow restriction within the core. The more densely packed turbulators are within a bar and plate core the more cooling will be done as the air passes through, but the greater flow is restricted.

There are many crappy cores for sale on ebay and they are now becoming a common item at so called performance shops. In the product images they show the cores and you can see right down them because there are no turbulators present. Without these all you have is big chunk of metal with poor cooling. People are always saying the ebay ICs flow great. Sure they do, straight pipes with no restrictions do flow nicely.

In terms of the core itself, some bar and plate cores use radiused ends (not end tanks) to promote flow. I made a quick drawing to illustrate this. You can see how the airflow will enter the core more readily when the ends are radiused rather than flat. Air is less likely to collide and swirl, and more likely to curve in.

[FAST-XR]

another con for the B&P - the heavier bar and plate cores take longer to come down in temp due to their mass

tube and fin Cons:

Those with less flow restriction than bar and plate cores offer less heat rejection

I disagree with this...

the heat rejection of a tube and fin can exceed a bar and plate of the same size, it depends on tube pitch, fins per inch, etc, its all in the design...

if the cooler is less restictive, you can make the same power on less boost, which will reduce your charge temp, and lower the work required by the intercooler

[xpl0sive]

thanks for the replies fellas. Would have expected more replies though lol. Some good reading there but. Right now, I'm kind of set on this tube and fin cooler from Plazmaman:

Shopping Cart

I would like to keep my options open though, and see what else is out there, so keep the replies coming!

[Rosie]

I drive my Car all Day every Day with 'regular' Track Days every Month!

I have had Bar and Plate Coolers and found them problem free, but I did change up to a Plazmaman Tube and Fin job when I was chasing heating issues at the Track!

At the recommendation of a lot of people who told me you get better Air flow through the Cooler!

It has never let me down and has been in the Car for about 18 Months.

[FAST-XR]

thanks for the replies fellas. Would have expected more replies though lol. Some good reading there but. Right now, I'm kind of set on this tube and fin cooler from Plazmaman:

Shopping Cart

I would like to keep my options open though, and see what else is out there, so keep the replies coming!

personally, id be looking at a cooler kit with opposite end inlet/outlets with cold side piping... if you want to keep the crossover, I would go for a kit like this... most of the site sponsers do a kit similar to this, depends on which cooler you want.

if you use black silicone and powdercoat the pipes black, no one would even notice...

plus if you do decide to upgrade, its no hard to get the new cold side pipes to suit a plenum, or just remove the crossover and do un under battery intake, and you wont have to ditch the cooler...

[xpl0sive]

FAST-XR, a kit like that is exactly what I was considering, but the only ones available are bar and plate options, which is why I created this thread really, to hear the pro's and cons of both, and hear peoples opinions on what is good and what is not. The kit that had me interested is the updated process west one, which isn't actually available yet lol.

[FAST-XR]

plazmana, hybrid and rapid all do bar and plate kits in this setup

they will all handle the power you are chasing, some are bigger than others, and depends on the look you are after as well

Edited 14/07/10 11:38 PM by RHR
No need to quote above post. USE FAST REPLY

[BFHOON]

have a look at the plazmaman 800hp kit.

the cooler is a tube and fin 76mm thick core and is not huge, offers great cooling and flow with exceptional throttle response and flow to the radiator.

my car runs over 350rwkw with the 800 kit and even more with a little squirt of dry nos..lol.

[40RDT]

Whats everyones views/opinions on the 1000hp Plazmaman tube and fin cooler?