BRAKE SHUDDER ISSUE

[EvilDaifu]

Brake Shudder This has got to be the no. 1 upgrade necessary for BAs under $500 bucks- it's not about power, it's about having peace of mind - about having a safe car for your family with dependable brakes. Some of you may have experienced brake shudder. Well, I wanted to get rid of it on my recently purchased BA XR6T and this is how I did it using all Aussie designed and made parts - dba 4000 slotted rotors and Race Brakes RB24 pads - no dust, no squeal and look farrkin great

By the way, some of this is my opinion only.

Race Brakes sell dba rotors and their own brand pads to suit a wide range of vehicles. Owner is Howard Reynolds - a friendly and chatty fellow.

Aussie designed and made brake pads in Victoria since 1967.

Harrop Engineering have used Race Brake pads as well as the Jefferson Ford franchise. Whilst I was in his brake shop, I heard over the phone that Subaru STI Melbourne were buying his parts as well. BMW were also interested in his pads. Unfortunately, as I mentioned in another post, Expensive Daewoo and BMW corporate head office decided not to swing a deal with Race Brakes because they weren't a big enough company to be supplier for them.

Race Brakes biggest seller is the BA and BF GTP Brembo pad replacement.

Also, a bit of history on the dba who came about because of Subaru. dba 4000 and dba 5000 I heard were originally Subaru part numbers. dba are also an Aussie company that designs and manufactures their rotors here.

Race Brakes

2 Minnie St, Yarraville VIC 3013

Ph 03 9687 7222 Fax 03 9687 7233

Email melbourne@racebrakes.com.au

Monday - Friday 8:30am - 6pm

For my BA XR6T, Race Brakes fitted me with dba 4000 slotted (othewise known as 4000 Series 6x6 Wiper-Slot) and Howard recommended RB24 pads as I would be mainly doing street and only the occassional hard twistys drive. I decided to keep the existing standard Ford PBR calipers and brake lines as upgrading those would have been out of my budget. I also decided not to upgrade any of my rear brake components as I heard that they are generally okay. I also heard that ABS quickly disengages the rear brakes so in my mind, it's better to focus on upgrading the front brakes.

The dba 4000 slotted are recommended for street and motorsport. Race Brakes removed the dust guard from my wheels (plate that looks rusty that hides the rotor from view) so that the brakes could breath better (look better as well). I was advised that the RB24 pads would not create much dust due to their make up and materials and so far that's true - I've been driving around in them for over 2 days now. They also don't squeal. If you go for a different combination of dba rotor with Race Brake pads, be sure to consult Howard as the wrong combination could mean you chew through your rotors pre-maturely.

Pricing:

Here are the prices for FordXR6Turbo members. Just let Howard know you are a member and your membership number and you can pay what I paid below. I bought my upgrade in June 2009 so to be fair on Howard, these prices are only valid for a period of time about that time and they obviously will go up over time so get in early if you are thinking of doing this upgrade as well.

1. BA XR6T 2 x dba 4000 slotted rotors (part no. DBA4504 SL/SR) to suit front wheels $148 per rotor (they are directional so a right and a left rotor will cost you $296 in total). Closest other price I have seen for these rotors is $158.

2. BA XR6T Race Brake set of RB24 pads (part no. DB1473RB24) to suit front wheels $86.43 per set (a set comprises all the pads necessary for the 2 front wheels). Quite competitive considering Bendix Ultimates pads would have cost me about $180 a set and I suspect may have been more dustier and squeal according to some other posts on this forum!!!

3. Fitting takes about 45 mins and is an optional cost $100 (Race Brakes did mine while I waited).

Howard said you can still have the above dba slotted rotors and pad price if you just want the parts only. Postage and handling is extra though so check with him on how much that is.

Just to let you know the calibre of vehicles he works on in his brake shop - I saw a WRX STI and Merc AMG inside and there was a Ferrari waiting to be worked on after me in the front parking.

Total Cost for me was $482.40 to upgrade my brake rotors and pads and Race Brakes accept credit card payment (no additional credit card percentage charge if paying by credit as well).

For other Fords I.e. BF, FG, I suggest contacting Howard for a quote - I understand the rotors are bigger on the BF so the above dba price won't be applicable as they are for a BA.

Here are some pics of my front wheels after the rotor and pad upgrade.

Well, I have had my dba 4000 slotted rotors and Race Brake RB24 pads on my front for over 2 days now - the car brakes well and no sign of brake shudder. Also, not had any brake dust on my rims that I've noticed and not heard a squeak out of them when I brake

Bit of background information:

Race Brakes design and manufacture RB3, RB2, RB24 and RB74 brake pads - http://www.racebrakes.com.au/html/pads.html

The pads are made locally in Victoria using a special compression process which is different from the mass produced pads made by others. Also the materials are different from the mass produced pads by other manufacturers overseas. Lower resin content means less residue to clog up your rotors and they use natural fibres to bind the pad material (Race Brakes were one of the first companies in the world to eliminate short asbestos fibres from their pads) - altogether meaning less dust on alloys and no sound of squealling.

RB3 is a disc pad designed for European vehicles offering extremely low noise, dust and disc wear. It is well suited to vehicles with alloy wheels as it does not deposit the black dust on the wheel that is associated with OEM European disc pads.

Features: Extremely quiet, High coefficient of friction.

RB2 is a disc pad designed for the normal replacement of most OEM disc pads. With equivalent or higher coefficient of friction than OEM disc pads. Super X is the disc pad that would be used in most disc brake overhauls.

Features: Low noise, High coefficient of friction, Low dust with very low disc wear.

RB24 is a disc pad designed especially for the large 4WD market. RB24 has a very high coefficient of friction as required to stop such large heavy vehicles with confidence. With it's high temperature capability and high friction, it is the ideal disc pad for any 4WD application.

Features: Very high coefficient of friction, High temperature capability, Low noise and disc wear.

RB74 is a disc pad for the customer who demands more from their braking system. RB74 has an extremely high coefficient of friction and high temperature capability providing good feel. It is perfectly suited to today's range of high performance vehicles.

Features: Extremely high coefficient of friction and temperature capability, Low noise and dust.

Race Brakes also sell the range of dba rotors - http://www.dba.com.au/2006/products_4000.asp (and also see jpeg files below).

Whilst dry, slotted rotors are about the same as rotors without slots. However, I was told that it's in the wet where slotted rotors come to the fore - mainly because of the way the slots help moisture to escape between the pads and rotors when they make contact.

Just for your info, I decided not to replace my standard Ford PBR calipers - mainly for the significant cost to do so (several thousand dollars for a quality new set of calipers from AP). I heard that the standard Ford PBR calipers are long and so there is uneven pressure applied on the standard Ford discs using standard Ford Bendix pads. As a result, you get a resin build up on the rotors in particular places as the rotors heat up unevenly and this can cause shuddering as the pads rub over parts of the rotor with uneven resin residue on them. So machining the rotors is effectively cleaning the resin residue from the brake pads off the rotors. I don't believe the rotors actually warp as such as I have heard that being said - buy I don't know for sure. So it's important if you are changing your pads to either machine the rotors or put on new rotors.

Bedding in is important if you are buying the full on motorsport or racing rotors and pads. However, for the combination I bought, I was told to just drive normally but don't drive hard straight away. Gradually increase the pressure used to brake over time. It was more important for the rotors to bed in rather than the pads. Usually takes about 400kms to bed in the rotors by applying different pressures to the brakes. This is to also help burn off any resin and other manufacturing artifacts that make the pad and rotor surface not smooth against each other.

The heat sensitive color codes let everyone know how hot your rotors have gotten. Under normal hard street driving conditions, the colors won't change because the rotors don't get hot enough I heard. The color change is permanent - so green, orange and red do not go back to those colors once they have turned white, yellow and white.

The patented unique design feature of the dba rotors is the kangaroo paw inner structure. Some premium rotors have directional vanes inside their rotors to allow better flow of air and therefore heat dissipation but that costs manufacturers money because they have to make a left and right rotor to suit the vanes. By having the kangaroo paw shaped pillars sandwiched inside the rotor as per the pictures on their website and in the jpegs below it means the rotor are not rotation direction senstive and can be used as a left or right rotor. However, this story is slightly different for the dba 4000 slotted rotors because the slot design mandates that their be a left and right rotor because of the way the wheel turns. However, dba make smooth rotors as well (for example for racing) and so these may be used on either the left or right wheel.

I think we have heard it before, but cross drilled is good for rotor breathing but not for hard motorsport because it weakens the structure of the rotor. In fact, I read somewhere that alot of motorsport rotors are flat surfaced only. So having a flat rotor surface with slots to my mind is a good compromise for a car mainly for the street but may occassionally be driven hard on a cruise.

Well hope this helps you

Edited 16/06/09 03:12 PM by EvilDaifu

[Iconic Bionic]

Some good info above to expalin this long outstanding problem, hopefully the mods will be kind to you for the advertising.

The BA's suffered from shudder the worst, however it was not unique to them and the other models standard braking systems should be upgraded as well.

I.B.

[EvilDaifu]

Thanks for the vote of support IB I've only had my car for 2 weeks and couldn't believe how much brake shudder I put up with when my previous BA (not this one) was still under warranty. I just believed Ford that all that could be done was machine the rotors and partly because it was a company car, I didn't really have authority to go and modify parts on the car. Whole different story now that I am the owner like a lot of other BA owners out there - so hopefully they will use the info above to their advantage.

[toxik]

1st time the other day on toxic kicked out a bit in the wet I eased off and as vdc thingo kicked in it sounded like someone just hit the side of the body with a hammer is this the norm? bought it with 24k and now have 43k was a little concerned but since then done 600ks and no problem is this the brake shudder or something else?

[EvilDaifu]

From my experience, brake shudder will happen everytime you put the foot on the brakes - it's consistently there. Doesn't go away. Sounds like you just had a once off issue with your brakes that sorted itself out - maybe something there between the pads and rotors that got burnt/cleared away after a bit of driving - perhaps a bit of pad resin material or something that got burnt off after awhile.

By the way, I heard that the standard Ford brakes tend to start shuddering from about 30k - I don't know if that's true or not - but has something to do with the original Ford OEM brake setup for BAs. Not sure if that is the same for BFs but from what I have read on this forum - even BFs can have brake shudder.

[Metasploit]

Thanks for the info Daifu, this is really helpful as I've been thinking about upgrading the brakes on my BA as well. If I get them sent up from Vic I'll post info on postage costs to NSW.

Cheers !

[rockafellqeinstien]

Just a quick note on my FG ute brake shudder.

It is both rear discs and there is an obviouse high point on both discs. This has caused the outside pad to wear much faster.

Not sure if it is warped or hard point in the discs that's wearing slower than the rest.

Thinking of replacing the discs than machining>

fRONTS are perfect

[mattyb]

My BF1 has almost 70000k's on it, and has cronic shudders... after the car is washed in a drive thru car wash (while the discs are wet/cold I guess) it brakes perfectly, once they get some heat in them (at any speed) they are worse than my VT commodore. I'm looking to upgrade to the 4000 series with new pads. I was told to just 'flog' the old ones with a hammer untill they came loose, does anyone else have a better idea so as not to bend, break, or f**k anything?

[EvilDaifu]

I was told to just 'flog' the old ones with a hammer untill they came loose, does anyone else have a better idea so as not to bend, break, or f**k anything?

I had mine fitted for me but isn't there a special tool that will open up the calipers so you can remove the pads easily? Partly the reason I had mine fitted, cos I didn't have that tool.

[berzerker]

Thanks Daifu

Will be ordering my set tomorrow.

Did you happen to have prices to do the rears as well?